More reasons for Rails NOT to be mainstream 11

Posted by Bob Silva Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:02:00 GMT

Kevin Clark, a fellow #cabooser, and great programmer posted an article on his blog today that for one reason or another sparked some contraversy. He wrote about Rails coding practices that he believes (either through experience or following the core mailing list) should not be used anymore. The pros and cons of scaffolding in production, engines, components, protected instance variables and help vampires are all things that have been discussed openly in various venues and Kevin advocated against them with his reasons why.


What happened next is hard to describe but it's like a pack of wolves came out and shredded him apart. Not sure where these "Rails" programmers came from but I hope they don't stick around. Besides, how can you get upset at a guy that looks like a cute little chia pet?

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  1. Joe Ruby about 2 hours later:
    help vampires?
  2. Bob Silva about 3 hours later:
    Help Vampires
  3. Joe Ruby about 4 hours later:
    Yeah, I probably should've googled that. :P But I didn't see that term discussed in his post...

    I think the reaction to the reaction to his post is overblown. Most of the points were good, but when other points aren't backed up with alternatives and evidence and specifics, then seasoned Rails programmers do get a bit riled up, especially when their own experience runs counter to his claims and when it's the first time that a coding practice has been claimed as "something you shouldn't be doing." Like pagination -- never before has it been claimed as "bad" or "deprecated" that I've seen.
  4. Sebastian about 4 hours later:
    Sheesh, Bob, why not close this whole thing off to anyone but caboosers and be done with. While i certainly agree that Kevin is way too cute to deserve some of the idiotic viciousness expressed in his blog post's comments, i don't know if i feel much more love from you guys playing the Minutemen of the Rails community. I know elitism can be very empowering, but there just may be (just maybe!) some capable folks outside the Grand Lodge. Ironically, from all i read on this, your post strikes me as the most confrontational.
  5. Adam Greene about 5 hours later:
    haha... help vampires. What a great read. Joe, Kevin just asked that people be specific to the problem they are trying to solve when asking for help. Seems like a pretty fair thing to ask.
  6. Nick Zadrozny about 6 hours later:

    I think many people don't know that Kev looks like a cute Chia pet because they just don't know Kev. They took umbrage about being told what they're (about to be) doing wrong, rather than felt ralllied and called to action and inspired to change. It's a tone thing.

    I know Kevin, and I've already seen some of those warnings in edge, so I skimmed through his article like any other and smiled at his tongue-in-cheek moments. But I understand where many others might have come to different conclusions.

    What backlash I see is only normal when telling a passionate, vocal community who fundamentally cares about doing things right that they are, in fact, doing things wrong, with more sarcasm than solution.

    To some it was a funny and helpful list, to others it has an uncomfortably caustic sting with an edge of truth to it and the weight of a considerable amount of authority in the community.

  7. Bob Silva about 7 hours later:
    Well said Nick!
  8. Nick Zadrozny about 7 hours later:

    ...that being said, we live and we learn, right? I learned a couple things that I should change in a project of mine, and I think Kevin's learning plenty about the differences between facetious and sarcastic! :)

    I also agree that Alex's response was out of proportion to the situation. Alex says in a comment that his intention wasn't to personally attack Kevin, but it really doesn't help that the post names him five times in nearly as many paragraphs, with a number of colorful metaphors and adjectives thrown in for good measure...

  9. Phil about 14 hours later:
    I've read that pagination was going to be pulled out of core; I think it was on the official Rails Blog. (It may have been in the comments.) But you don't have to be on the rails-core mailing list to know. It's somewhat common knowledge.
  10. Phil about 14 hours later:
    I've read that pagination was going to be pulled out of core a few times; I think it was mentioned on the official Rails Blog. But you don't have to be on the rails-core mailing list to know. It's being discussed in the open.
  11. Joe Ruby about 17 hours later:
    Something getting pulled out of core doesn't mean it's "bad" or "deprecated." Most often is the case is that they think it'd be better as a plugin. I don't recall seeing it on the official Rails blog...
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